As if the end of red snapper fishing along the southeast US coast were not enough, the SAFMC is going to vote in early June on their Amendment 17A to their fishing rules. This additional ruling will halt all bottom fishing in water from 98 feet deep to 240 feet deep off the Atlantic coast from about Melbourne, Florida to the Georgia-South Carolina line. Their logic is that someone might catch a red snapper in those waters, so to prevent that from happening, they just close it to all bottom fishing.
There is more. Spearfishing, including commercial spearfishing will be allowed in those same waters. So while commercial divers with power heads and explosive projectiles vacuum the bottom, unfettered by hook and line fishermen, we all just sit and watch.
Want even more? The North and South Carolina coast lines are not affected by this ruling. Hook and line bottom fishing will not be stopped there. And spearfishing with powerheads will not be permitted. So, the recreational angler fishing the coast of the Carolinas will have the fish all to themselves! You may find it interesting that the headquarters for the SAFMC is in Charleston, SC and most of the employees are from South Carolina as well. Coincidence???
As I said in the past, the environmental anti-fishing crowd are quietly cheering this event. Any of you who ever thought that they could never take away our fishing rights had better come to grips with the fact that they can and they will. Under the pretext of protecting the fish stock, they are slowly but surely eliminating fishing.
Comments
Ron. I am a Florida fisherman and an environmentalist. Maybe you don’t believe me but I am. I’ve seen you make the same claims about how we’re losing our fishing rights and how those darned tree-huggers are to blame. May I offer an alternative viewpoint? An increasing population puts increasing strains on fisheries. You don’t have to look too hard to find evidence of an increased demand for seafood. Heck, they serve sushi pretty much everywhere, even in the Midwest! The fish that people catch and eat are at the top of the food chain (unlike cows and chickens, etc.) and as such they are more susceptible to environmental changes. Massive amounts of bottom fishing disturbs the sea floor ecosystem (especially trawling) and the health of the sea floor ecosystem is ultimately linked to the health of the fisheries. This is part of the reason that fishery management (not tree-huggers) has implemented these regulations. This isn’t some conspiracy to make our lives less fun! How selfish and short sighted are we?? Fish they used to catch back in the day were much larger and more abundant than today. Look at cod, look at sea bass, look at the jewfish. You and people like you (and I realize there are a lot of you) need to come to grips with the increasing population, the interconnectedness of the environment and the importance of preserving our fisheries for future use. Maybe you don’t believe there is a problem because you haven’t seen it, well I say one’s individual experience is not enough to say anything, you need statistics taken from large sample sizes. And that’s exactly what the fishery management does! There’s a reason we have regulations; we’re all regulated in everyday life, why can’t you run a red light? Why can’t you just build anything anywhere? Why can’t you fish every darned fish in the sea? Because we have rules and are self-discipline and we strive to create a better world. We still have our liberty and our inalienable rights. And I do support local fishing rather than importing fish from some over-exploited fishery elsewhere. But your talk is just ignorant and short sighted. Why not be on the side of caution when talking about our natural resources? Do you want our generation to be seen as the usurpers of America’s natural wealth. Oh…wait…it’s too late…and my tree-hugger is showing. I’ve listened to what you’ve had to say and I find it selfish and annoying. Maybe this alternative viewpoint will bring more reason to your arguments.
Rich,
Very well stated. We are a family oriented site, so I took the liberty on a couple of words. Believe it or not, I agree with your outlook. I just wish all of the regulators were regulating for the sake of the environment and not for selfish reasons. My fishing experiences go back to around 1951 – that’s the first fishing I can remember doing. And, you are right; fish were far more abundant and much larger then than they are today.
Am I biased – sure, isn’t everyone biased about something? Am I concerned about the stability of the fisheries? Absolutely! But, sometimes I tend to wear my emotions on my sleeve and vent.
Regarding this post, I found it quite interesting that the proposed closure did not include North and South Carolina waters. The original proposal did include those waters. See the map at http://www.safmc.net. I would think that a closure would include all areas that the red snapper inhabits. Instead, they closed the area they determined had the highest catch rates. How they determined that is beyond a lot of people – and I have to say, I wonder myself.
I have done a number of articles regarding regulations, conserving the resource and protecting our future fisheries. I have spoken for and against commercial fishing. I have spoken for and against recreational fishing. I am absolutely against those individuals who break the rules or slaughter fish for no reason other than bragging rights. As an example, take a look at the two articles below and then tell me if you still feel I am ignorant, selfish and short-sighted:
Catch and Release Fishing
Reduced Bag Limits and Seasonal Closures
I am all for saving the resource and rebuilding dwindling fish stocks. But, at the same time, I am against the several organizations out there (I will refrain from the TH words) who are using fishery closures as a jump start in their own selfish efforts to eliminate all fishing.BTW – the Sprint looks awesome!
I apologize, Ron. I got a little carried away in that comment and I can see you are not ignorant and selfish but rather level-headed and fair. I also respect that you have way more experience than me as well! It is terrible to me how polarizing certain political issues have become (right vs left) and its really nice to have an argument/conversation involving something I am passionate about with people who wont call names or resort to reactionary claims and instincts. I am biased as well (and everybody really is biased in someway due to the fact of subjective reality), but the common ground that differing opinions have is the path to solving the issues at stake. I am also of the opinion that the misguided and wanton use of bureaucracy at all levels of government is a thing to hate. This system of capitalist bureaucracy enforces everything from institutional racism to retarded fishing regulations but only if there is enough money in the right hands. It is difficult to fight this amorphous behemoth but by having conversations like these we, as voters and citizens, can clear away politcal smokescreens and find real solutions. After looking at the link you put up it seems to me that the south atlantic fishery council doesnt have enough people who actually fish! I’m not sure though. It would seem to me that a fisheries management council should maintain an even balance of scientists, policy makers and fishermen. But a council should definitly not contain more fishermen! Thats what happened with the new england fisheries council and now they’re all pretty much out of work for fishing out all of the Cod!
Our recreational friends in Florida whom our organization, Fishing For Freedom, fully support, have no idea that the environmentalists have already built the ability to completely take over all fishing, hunting and diving. They are within the appointment of two or three commissioners from doing so… And once they obtain a majority on the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, it’s “game over.” As commercial fishermen with 500 square foot nets, we realize long ago that we’ve lost ALL constitutional due process. Don’t take my word for it, just look at the opinions in several of our cases. In our last case, the 1st DCA Chief Judge Edwin Browning Jr., warned of the danger the FWC poses to the rights of the common man and called them “imperialists.” This year, we had a VERY prestigious law firm look into what could be done and they felt there was no hope to challenge the lack of due process through the courts. (Right here in America!) The firm then stated that they were extremely worried about EVERYONE’S ability to hunt and fish being in imminent danger…Especially theirs…the recreational community. We hope to obtain a letter from the firm addressing their fears to give the legislature next year. Apparently the only way to control the FWC is through their budget… They are THAT autonomous. Unfortunately, the politician that was ringing the alarm bell with us for years, Representative Mitch Needelman, was term limited out of the Florida House. He wasn’t fighting for our community…he was fighting for everyone on this issue. Long ago he realized that everyone’s right (or privilege) to fish and hunt were in danger. So, just a warning to all who like to fish, hunt and dive in Florida, don’t only keep your eye on the national scene, also keep your eye on whom is appointed to the FWC, because what has happened to our community can happen to yours.
Thank you Ron for all that you do and your logical approach to everything you report or write articles about. Dave Grix
Rich, your comment rings hollow, without restrictions on commercial operations.
Commercial ‘factory’ fishing is, by all means, the biggest isue facing the preservation of fish stocks. It does suck that there is such good enforcement for individuals but not really for corporations and government programs. But thats the society we are all persrcibed to!!! Dave was saying that in several cases he felt as though his constitutional rights had been totally eclisped. I hear that! It happens all the time in so many arenas in society, say when small time farmers are taken over by coporate farms, when federal programs create toxic waste dumps in poor, urban neighborhoods or when some kid dies of e coli from food made in a factory farm and the parents have no suit because of all the money in big food. The complaints about losing fishing/hunting rights seem petty to me when I think of the system that supports us and how it is so screwed up at so many levels. If you are goin to confront the issue of liberties being supported in this country there a ton of other social issues far more urgent than fishing rights that you should consider. We are concerned about fishing cause its important to us. Me me me. The reason I didnt mention commercial fishing is because we werent discussing commmercial fishing. As an environmentalist I shouldnt even have to mention that I feel commercial fishing is the great satan. And the effect comercial fishing has on fish stocks must be far greater than that of us individuals. But that is not an excuse to omit the fact that the cumulitive effect individual fishing has on fish stocks is also a problem. If the FWC is so screwed up, I’d like to ask, what would you prefer? (in a perfect world) What type of systematic social mechanism do you (anybody please) think would be more effective? Im not trying to get anyones goat by asking, Im genuinely interested.
oh yeah, and about all that crap dave was saying about how the ‘environmentalists’ are poised to take over all marine recreation…I’m an environmentalist and I dont have any say beyond my vote (and I feel the weakness of that all the time). Anyone who is an environmentalist within the establishment is what we consider to be ’shallow’. True environmentalists are falling, quietly, off the grid all the time. But that doesnt mean that those who have an understanding of the importance of natural systems and have some power are bad. Lord knows that people who could care less about anything outside of next election have been in power for so long! Fishing (unfortunately cause I love fishing too. And I still fish all the time which doesnt make me feel very oppressed in that respect btw) is something that environemtalists get a say in because there are many situations all over the world one can point to and say “look! there are no more fish there because of this and this environmental problem! Lets not fish there anymore!” notice how there is no attention to the greater environmental issues? Messed up. But thats because environmentalists, and by proxy their thoughts, are crazy and they are just trying to be in power…..This, I say, is ignorance. It is ignoring the problems that exist with how we manipulate natural systems. When more and more people start to get fed up with living in a toxic, oily, overfished, overpriced world and want to do something about it will you just continue to say that they want power?? I say our right to enjoy a functioning biosphere is in danger. And this is far a more pressing issue than fishing rights. Which, I feel I still have save a few species in a few locations during a few times of year.
I have to jump in here and take some sort of stance – albeit a polite one. Let me bring you up to date on the commercial/recreational “battle” currently going on in North Carolina. There is a group – similar to Fishing for Freedom in Florida only from the recreational point of view – that is striving to have redfish and spotted seatrout legally declared a game fish, and as such remove them from the commercial harvest.
The facts are that only 1 to 2% of the total harvest of these two species in North Carolina are taken by commercial fishermen. I believe the by-catch rate with all the nets in North Carolina contribute to the demise, but commercial fishermen simply do not target these fish enough to be a “threat” to the recreational angler.
Both sides accuse each other of a variety of tactics – and I believe that both sides are probably equally guilty of at least some shenanigans. Florida commercial fishermen are fed up with the Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission (FWC). North Carolina recreational anglers are fed up with the North Carolina DNR people because they feel like they are slanted toward the commercial fishermen.
Folks, let’s face it. We will always have regulated fisheries – there simply is no room for unlimited taking of the resource. But with the world population growing at an ever increasing rate, the fish are simply not going to withstand the fishing pressure unless we all cooperate and find a middle ground. I can guarantee that that middle ground will make both the recreational and the commercial fishermen angry. But what else can be done?
I saw what I think was the first time ever that commercial and recreational fishermen were on the same page and actually worked together. It was back in January when the red snapper fishery in the southeast US was closed down, and they all marched on Washington. Their goal common could be debated, but they did come together.
What if they were to voluntarily sit down and try to work out solutions together? Put aside all the accusations from each side, sit at a table and work it out! Perhaps then the DNR’s and Fish and Game Commissions in each state could buy in to the solutions.
Commercial fishing (factory boats) in international waters is a whole ‘nuther ballgame’.
This Memorial Day, Governor Crist did a free fishing weekend. He encouraged everyone to go fishing in the state of Florida for free (no license required) to show what great fishing we have in the state. Where is Crist and the rest of our representatives in fighting this?
This is way to radical and extreme! There are other ways to protect fish such as bag limits, closed seasons and having a plan in place in case of an oil well leak. Banning sonar fish finders my be something to look at. I can afford one, but I choose to make fishing a challenge. The the new equipment makes it way to easy at times.
We have know for a while the the progressive liberals have been gaining more and more control. We knew this would happen when obama’s regulatory Czar Cass Sunstein stated pets should have the right to an attorney. These are the types of people regulating us! Sadly this is only the 1st step. All fishing will be next. Then boats will cause to much pollution and then a full out attack to stop hunting. Cass Sunstein is on the record many times stating that he wants to stop hunting.
This is a sad day for me, but I really feel bad for all the kids. I want more than anything for my kids and all kids to experiance the joy I had fishing when I was young. These radicals must be stopped.
Thank you Ron for keeping us informed. Don’t give up hope, the tide will turn the other way soon.
Rich you and your PETA types are tree huggers. I would go into more graphic details with other names, but this is a family site. Anyone who fishes even once or twice a year is not happy about this radical move.
Mr. Grix- Thank you.
Ron I have to say I like your site and appreciate your support of these conversations and keeping us all up to date. I especially appreciate the common ground you are talking about. The common ground is where I can go and realize the nuances of fishing regulations and see that overly ‘green’ (i hate that word’s use these days) ideologies can push extreme and uncalled for measures within policy making organizations. But the commmon ground is also a place where our friend Dave OB can go and think about how ‘the people who are regulating us’ are just as un-progressive conservative as they are liberal. Just because there is a democratic president and a democratic congress doenst mean that there arent a ton of highly powerful republicans out there and it doesnt mean it wont change back to them being the majority at any given election (as you said). To me, Dave, politicians are actually all the same: out to control everyone by appealing to their constituents which they hope are the majority. Will we let them control us with this polarizing idealogy? You wont loose your right to hunt and fish everything and youre not paying attention if you think Im PETA, I fish! Besides, if you think youve lost a right and its for no good reason why not just break the rules and do it anyway? Oh..wait thats too progressive and revolutionary. Yes, I guess I am a treehugger. But I dont think of it in that way. I have empathy. I realize I am an animal also. If you get to call me a tree-hugger then I get to call you a gun-hugger. And after all the dust settles I’ll be closer to something God made and you’ll be closer to something that has killed millions of people, enslaved more, and given societies enough fear to enact regulations in the first place. To set up laws about how you use all that power you have in that fancy piece of wood and metal.
I love to fish. I also am a diver and love to see them when I dive. I have been diving the Florida waters for over 30 yrs. There used to be teaming schools of fish, huge goupers, Fish EVERYWHERE. NOW is is a miracle to even SEE a fish ANYWHERE over 8-9″. The fish are almost COMPLETELY gone. We have to get real. If steps are not taken right away there simply will not be anymore fish to catch AT ALL. THEN what are you going to cry about. I LOVE to fish. last 4-5 times I went we caught NOTHING because there was NOTHING. This is a truely SAD state of affairs & it sucks. The fish are almost completely in a lot of areas. We must let them replenish for a while so our children & grandchildren will be able to fish & the ocean is not just the DEAD SEA.